Connection, belonging and culture in sport ft. Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY

Acknowledgement of Country: As we share a yarn today, we honour the stories that have been told on this land for thousands of years and acknowledge the Ngunnawal people as the traditional custodians of the land we're recording on and we pay our respects to their elders past, present and emerging.

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: I want athletes to, particularly athletes that might be their first games, I want them to have the best experience possible. Win, lose or draw or medal, like just be satisfied. It's more than just the green and gold, I want athletes to go, I'm representing a country with the oldest culture in the world. 

Like, if you can't draw strength from that, as well as draw strength from green and gold, then you're crazy. Maurice Rioli came out to my school, that was one of the phone calls Mum made, and he grabbed me in the staff room and said 'Kyle, it's not a disadvantage to be Aboriginal, it's an advantage but you've got to use it.' It was almost like the permission or the key to say, no, you can be successful with this identity, this Aboriginality. I want people to feel safe and connected and like, 'Hey, I belong in this team.' Be yourself, enjoy this moment, do everything you can to get that satisfaction out of your event and be proud.

Tim Gavel: Sport is more than performance; it's also about connection and belonging. To ensure success in this space, integrity in sport is vital. In this episode of our Clean to Gold: Glasgow 2026 podcast series, we welcome Kyle Vander-Kuyp. I'm Tim Gavel. Kyle is a proud Worimi and Yuin man, and he's a four-time Commonwealth Games athlete. 

From competing on the world stage in the 110 metres hurdles, to now working as a cultural advisor with Commonwealth Games Australia, as well as being a member of SIA's Culture and Safety Advisory Committee, Kyle brings a powerful perspective on what it truly means to wear the green and gold. 

In this episode we yarn about his journey through four Games, the lessons he learned along the way, the experiences that shaped him, we'll also learn more about the work he's doing with Commonwealth Games Australia to ensure culture is at the forefront of decisions within the organisation, feeding down to our athletes and support personnel for the Glasgow Games. Kyle, great to have you with us.

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: Hi Tim, how are you?

Tim Gavel: The Commonwealth Games are very much a friendly games, aren't they?

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: They are yeah, it's really where my career started. I remember being 18 at Auckland and straight out of high school, so I was a little bit underdone, very skinny, tried to wear lycra, didn't look that good, and just got exposed to the sport at that age. And a young Cathy Freeman was on that team, 16-year-old, so we became friends and training partners along the way. 

But yeah, when I seen the elite guys in Auckland, Colin Jackson, Tony Jarrett, that's where the spark was probably lit. I went home to Mum saying, 'I want to be like those guys.' Like, 'How much work do I have to do? What's the training? Just get me back to the training track.' 

And yeah so, it was so important to see the elite guys be exposed at a Commonwealth Games and also all the other things that go along with it. Walking out of the call room and hearing the roar of a crowd, that's what is sort of imprinted in you when you go and run for Australia is that roar, the feeling, the adrenaline, the nerves, and if you like that feeling, it's probably what gets you hooked. You want to go, well, like I said, what do I do next? What do I have to do to get back to this track or back to the next Games?

Tim Gavel: With Cathy being an Indigenous runner as well, did you feel – she was 16, you were 18, did you feel as though 'We're in this together. We've got to look after each other'?

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: Yeah. Well, it's interesting to reflect back because I remember racing at E S Marks Field in Sydney where the trials were and my race went well and I beat the senior guys and a few of them were a bit annoyed. 'How's this skinny 18-year-old beaten us?' 

And so, when I was sort of coming to terms with what I'd done, I looked down at the 100 metre start and I said to Mum 'Hey, there's an Aboriginal girl in the 100.' and she said, 'Let's meet her after the race.' I don't think there would have been that many other Aboriginal athletes at the track so you probably stood out back in the 90s as a very, very small minority of athletes, and yeah, like you said, I think we did meet at the end of the race and we said hello. 

She was very shy, I was shy, but by the time Commonwealth Games rolled around we were mates and we were laughing and there was a big cohort of teenagers on that team, Rohan Robinson, Paul Green, probably going to forget a few, but we were the youngsters in that Auckland team.

Tim Gavel: Yeah. Just, I guess, your memories of Commonwealth Games, having competed at 4 –

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: Yeah.

Tim Gavel: – 1994 when you were part of that relay, but didn't get your medal till a few years later…

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: It took a while, yeah.

Tim Gavel: Four years later or something, wasn't it?

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: Yeah. I'd finished my hurdle race and I was pretty shattered because I was top three, ranked top three in the Commonwealth so I really just failed to execute to get a bronze in the hurdle so 5th place wasn't satisfactory, but I went out and went sort of, let the hair down and then had a sticky note on my door one night at 2.30 in the morning and the relay coach had said 'Rock up to training at 8.30 the next day.' I thought 'Okay, is this a joke?' and it wasn't a joke and I went to relay training, and I had to give Damien Marsh a rest day in the semi. 

So I ran the last leg and got the guys through to the final and they got the silver in the final and yeah, it was a good moment because I felt sort of a bit of redemption from my hurdles, but I carried my flag in my backpack that day and jumped the fence and yeah, the boys embraced the Aboriginal flag and we had the Australian flag as well so it was a nice coming together, but I'd grown up with the boys too. Shane Naylor was in that team, Damien Marsh, Paul Henderson, so we'd all grown up together, it was nice to celebrate a success. I didn't get the medal, they said 'Oh, no, there's no medals for the reserve runners', and luckily, Brian Roe just annoyed them for four years and got me the medal.

Tim Gavel: You got it out at Canberra, didn't you?

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: And then they gave it to me at Canberra Grand Prix. So yeah, when you see your resume and people go 'Oh, you're a Commonwealth Games silver medallist', there's a bit of a story behind that.

Tim Gavel: I do remember interviewing you many times after races and, you pretty much came across as a very confident individual and quite imposing at times too –

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: Yeah. (laughter)

Tim Gavel: – might I say, Kyle. But in reality, you're quite a shy person.

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: Yeah, it's funny. Sports been great to do, but then post sport, the people that I still run into on the street or out in communities and they know who you are, they've recognised you and there's a lot, sometimes there's a bit of hesitation or fear, people are a bit scared and I think they've seen the athletic Kyle or the athlete mode that I've been in, but I'm totally different as a person. Yeah.

Tim Gavel: Do you have to manufacture that confidence and that persona, do you think, as an athlete?

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: Yeah, I'm not a very super confident, assertive, aggressive person generally. 

So yeah, the sport needed that, I needed to be assertive, I needed to be aggressive. I chose an explosivem fast sprint event, so all those qualities came out of me, but they weren't my natural day-to-day, the way I existed but, yeah. And the training allows you to become mentally strong and bulletproof on that day so yeah, if you did feel that I was a bit intimidating, I probably just had that face on. 

But I remember looking up to athletes on the TV and, we're coming up to LA Olympics, but I watched Carl Lewis on TV and Linford Christie, and I said to Mum 'Geez, look at the way they look on the start line. Like they just look like aggressive. They know what they want.' And so, Mum always used to say to me 'Go on, get that Linford look, when you're out there' or 'Get that Carl Lewis look before you, on the start line.' 

So, you really have to look up to athletes and not copy but also work out what's right for me. I was never going to be a Noah Lyles and jump up and down. I'm quite a very calm person, but I also had to get that, where's this adrenaline going to come from?

Tim Gavel: Didn't want to show any vulnerabilities.

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: Yeah.

Tim Gavel: But I guess, in your role with the Commonwealth Games team in Glasgow, it's going to be part of it, isn't it? You're going to be telling them 'Listen, if you don't feel confident, you have to manufacture it –

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: Yeah.

Tim Gavel: – and you have to experience sort of an outer life/body persona while you're competing'.

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: Yeah. Well, I'm really looking forward to it. I've been appointed in a role as Cultural Advisor, but I'm sitting in a team called Connection and Belonging so you've got a lot of former athletes in that team, we all are actually, and so for us to be there in the village, one, it's to make athletes feel comfortable –

Tim Gavel: Culturally safe too.

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: – Yeah, culturally safe. If headquarters is a home away from home, that's what we want them to be, relaxed, but yeah, I'm sure we've got a wealth of knowledge between all of us and we're all different sports so yeah. I've sort of been putting dot points down of what I'm going to do with an intro and I'm going to talk about cultural safety, I'm going to talk about identity and that celebration of how rich Australia is with our culture but also, we've got to celebrate each other's differences because we're going to do better as a team when we all gel together. I think Australian teams do that naturally. 

I'm blown away how teams are set up these days, the villages are set up for high performance, There's baristas, there's loungers, there's breakout areas, there's recovery areas. Athletes have got it all when they walk into a village, if you've done all the hard work, you've got to just relax and get your final sessions done and there's no reason why you can't perform but, yeah. I think the team that I'm going to work with, I think I want athletes to, particularly athletes that might be their first Games, I want them to have the best experience possible. 

Win, lose or draw or medal, like just, be satisfied, have that satisfaction, have that pride wearing green and gold, it doesn't last forever. It will be a day where you have to hang up the boots, and you want; I particularly would love athletes just to get the most out of it and be proud of whatever background I think. 

That's probably, never had anyone say that to me when I was an athlete like 'Kyle, be proud of who you are and be proud of that background and that heritage.' I know I was, but I was kind of kept quiet, you know? And if I had my Aboriginal flag, it was just draped quietly in my room and behind my door and I knew who I was representing, but now you walk into a village and there's a map of the language groups up, there's the flags up, there's the Aboriginal artwork on the uniform this year is going to be amazing. I'm hopefully going to do my best job to articulate that story that the company's done to research, respect the history, respect the design. 

So yeah, it's more than just the green and gold I want athletes to go like, since I'm representing a country with the oldest culture in the world, like if you can't draw strength from that, as well as draw strength from green and gold, then you're crazy because we've got a super rich culture here in the country and when you represent Australia, why don't you represent that as well?

Tim Gavel: Come a long way since 1994 in particular, haven't we?

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: Definitely.

Tim Gavel: Cathy had the flag in Victoria, Ireland, and you mentioned there that you were hesitant about displaying the Aboriginal flag.

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: Yeah, we have come a long way and I think that's what I've really enjoyed the opportunities to, one, be a cultural advisor, I'm chairing Commonwealth Games Australia's Reconciliation Action Plan, so I, as a chair, I'm just watching a really powerful conversation between the indigenous advisors on the committee, and you've got Steve Monaghetti and board and execs really leaning in to go, how can we do things better? 

And in the last 12 months, I've watched them go out to communities and work in remote communities and I might get the thank you, but I'll go 'No, it's not me, you guys are committed to this. This is what you need to do.' And they've taken athletes out as well, non-indigenous athletes and those athletes have said to me 'Kyle, that was one of the best weeks of my life, equal to my career, going to work with our Aboriginal kids.' 

So, they're like 'Wow. This is the power sport has.' You can bring, sport can bring people together, sport can help people connect. One of the kids on the trip said, we all shared our stories in the classroom and he came up to me and he said 'Kyle, you've got me thinking about what I can do in my future because I want to do something special like what you guys have done.' 

We were in the middle of the Pilbara, a very remote – but yeah. If sport or your stories or that visit just lights someone up and gets some minds ticking about what is potential, what is opportunities look like out there. So that's why I sit on a lot of these committees, I want the next generation to have doors opened up, I want the doors to be safe, I want environments to be safe, I want opportunities to keep happening. But yeah.

Tim Gavel: Do you think that people do open up to you and accept you because you are to a certain degree vulnerable and you do bring a fair backstory? Adopted by white parents –

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: Yeah.

Tim Gavel: – everything you've said so far is incredibly relatable. Do you find that that is the way that people come to you and they open up and they...

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: I hope so. I think it's been interesting coming back into the sports space because I've never lost the passion, I've never lost the love of track and field, but of sport, and then to have colleagues say 'Look, Kyle, you've got a lot that you can bring. You're calm, you're great with people, you're great with young athletes.' 

And I might know that quietly in myself, but it's nice to have a purpose back in sport that you don't – I never want to get in the way, I never want to – it's not about me anymore. I've done my stuff, but if I can help the next person have the best experience and create some amazing memories and success for themselves, that feels kind of special to be back in sport. 

I'm coaching as well, so I'm learning about the coaching game and I'm only quite young at it. I'm not young, but I'm a young coach because no one's really asked me to coach and this young guy rang me and said, 'I'm finished my juniors, I've had my sort of childhood coach, but I want you to coach me.' And after 12 months together, I got him to Paris and he ran in the rounds in Paris and now he wants to be, he wants my record and he wants to be in LA and we've had some injuries, so, yeah. It's kind of another journey to be in that coaching space, but...

Tim Gavel: Just on that, you're in the coaching role and you're role at Commonwealth Games Australia but the various committees, did you have that cultural support when you were coming through?

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: No, I think it was lacking. Yeah, it's amazing how much more is discussed now and like I said, I think I talked about the diversity's changed, and our teams are just made up of all backgrounds and all nationalities. 

Australia's made up of all backgrounds and nationalities, so just look at what the Socceroos have done, like that's a great example of diversity and the strength of that. You bring all these cultures together, yeah, amazing talent, but where's that talent come from? I look at our Socceroos and I go, well, gee, they must have been playing soccer in a little club as little kids. What did that club do and how did they go through high school? And for me, I go back to the layers where I started and, but Little Ath's was safe for me, Little Ath's was where I started. Started off for fun, started off doing every event and then –

Tim Gavel: Nobody wants to do hurdles.

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: – and then yeah, and then hurdles was what came along at 10 or 11, and I remember going home from school saying 'Mum, I really want to run for Australia, and I want to wear green and gold.' And luckily Mum sort of almost formed the partnership with me and said 'Yep, let's do it, if that's what you want.' And I was shy, I was skinny, I was struggling with the Aboriginality because as you said, being adopted by non-Indigenous parents, they were helping me get through name-calling at primary school and 'Abo' and 'Boong' and 'Black Kid', and Mum sat with me and cried on my bed like when I was trying to scratch my colour off. I said 'Mum, I got to get this colour off like, I'm getting called names.' And she said 'Well, it's not coming off.' And we cried and I could see Mum shattered that I was ashamed and I was embarrassed, but then she went into overdrive. She called people, she rang people, she stormed up to the school, 'This has got to stop.' She didn't leave the principal's office until she was sure that I was not going to get called one name again. 

And yeah, so I never faced racism in my career. I'm sure unconscious bias or, probably being misunderstood, people not really knowing who you are or what's important to you, but yeah, I probably had to get that thick skin from the primary school days and Maurice Rioli came out to my school, that was one of the phone calls Mum made and he spoke to the school. He talked about being a proud Tiwi man and talked about his footy career and I think the school just thought 'Oh, we've got an AFL player coming to the school', but they got more. They got a strong, proud Aboriginal man and then he grabbed me in the staff room and said 'Kyle, it's not a disadvantage to be Aboriginal it's an advantage, but you've got to use it.' 

And I was 11 at the time. I was wearing a Collingwood jumper, he wanted me out of the Collingwood jumper, but those words just hit me right in the right spot. It was almost like the permission or the key to say, no, you can be successful with this identity, this Aboriginality, so, I didn't look back after that. I just needed someone to say 'No, you can achieve success.' I chose a sport where you weren't out of place if you were dark coloured, dark skinned. I remember questions in the 90s that Cathy and me got and athletes in Europe would say 'Where's the other Aboriginal athletes?'. 

Like, there must be more out there.' Like, yeah, there is, but we're sort of at the top, we're the only ones at that level. Then we're lucky to have Nova Perez, Patrick Johnson, Josh Ross, and now there's another group of young ones coming through now. 

So, I've got a soft spot for Indigenous talent. I want it looked after; I want it nurtured, but if I don't see it looked after or nurtured, well, I get pretty cranky.

Tim Gavel: I guess, just listening to you speak there and the belief that both Roy and your mum had in you, in your role with the Commonwealth Games team, some of these young athletes just want to have somebody that believes in them –

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: Yep.

Tim Gavel: – and feels as though they can be successful. And that's going to be part of your role, I would imagine, is not only connection and belonging, but also instilling belief in these young athletes.

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: Yeah, you're right.

Tim Gavel: You're here, you're part of the team, we all want you to do well.

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: Yeah, you're right. I think there's a lot said in just having athletes, former athletes there that there's not a lot that has to be said, but you get it, I know how you're feeling. If it's two days before an event, if it's just arriving and how's our rooms, how's our bed, what's the pillow like, where's the food, you get all those final feelings that people have been going through and...but yeah, there's hundreds of people in the staff and the headquarters, so they've got a whole team of great people behind them, so I think just to add those former athletes into the mix. 

I've had athletes come up to me and just say 'Oh, I'm just so glad that I knew you were down in the foyer and I could just have a chat to you or just come and say hello to you.' And I didn't say much, I'm not doing a psychology session, but I think just that presence, as you said, like they know this guy's positive, he gets it, he knows what I'm feeling. 

So yeah, it's kind of a pinch yourself because you go, right, I'm not giving out technical advice, I'm not telling a diver how to do diving or a gymnast or, but it's just that, hey, I get it. I know the pressure; I know what you want to get out of yourself.

Tim Gavel: Do you find that young people are more interested in your culture and they really want to understand more and it gives them a bit of depth? They're not just doing it because they can put themselves on Instagram or Facebook.

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: Yeah.

Tim Gavel: A lot of young people take a deeper meaning into what they're doing.

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: They do, and it's really blown me away. The last couple of teams that I've been able to go on and I was kind of, I was a bit hesitant and a bit nervous around, I knew –

Tim Gavel: Opening yourself up about your culture, or?

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: Or bringing culture or bringing the discussion of culture and history, and I thought, I don't want to shove it down people's throat. Like, you know, that the village is not a cultural awareness session that you go and put someone under. 

But a couple of soft ways to introduce culture, like the map of the language groups and artwork on the uniforms and yarning circles. 

I've been blown away that our young Australian athletes, they've got a thirst for learning more about the history, learning more about the culture. they're really our, they're our next great athletes, but they're our next best leaders in the country when whatever they do after their sports because they've got good empathy, they've got a good interest. 

And really, if I was speaking for Aboriginal Australia, we only want Australia to walk side by side with us and just come on the journey with us. We don't want to be fixed or solved or you're closing the gap, that's an Aboriginal thing to fix. It's like, no, walk with us and walk side by side. That's how we'll get better outcomes. 

But our young athletes, they're ready to do that, which blows me away.

Tim Gavel: In the connection and belonging space, in Glasgow for the Commonwealth Games, where athletes can go, what sort of messaging is there for them in that space?

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: I think the values are so important. The Commonwealth Games, respect, inclusiveness, but our team belonging and connection, I think athletes can be a bit lost if it's a first team or you're away from home or your support networks are not there, you'd hate to have a sense of feeling lost or overwhelmed or I'm out of place. 

So, I think we're aiming to make the village like a place to connect, be safe. Maybe meet an athlete that you've never met before or have a conversation or build a friendship with someone else that you may never have thought of. That could happen quite easily, but I think we're creating that environment and that space for that to be a bit natural.

Tim Gavel: So, the messages are pretty much, 'We're all in this together.'

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: We're in it together, we're here to be a sounding board, we're here for advice if you need it, but sometimes it's a softer touch. It's not really chasing people down and pulling them aside, it's probably more, hey, we're here and if you need it, come and reach out. So yeah, sometimes it's just helping people find the right way to relax and the mood.

Tim Gavel: So, if you see, for instance, at the start of the Commonwealth Games, you've got a lot of young athletes who might be a bit awkward around each other, and by the end of the Commonwealth Games, they're all there supporting each other, hugging each other and obviously, rejoicing in each other's success, that I would imagine culturally would be a success for you.

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: That would be the, yeah, the vision of success, yeah. Just athletes being able to connect, engage, be comfortable to share their war battles, how they went, and all under that opportunity too. You're representing the country, wearing green and gold, and that can be a lot of pressure, but it also should be the highlight of your career.

Tim Gavel: And Kyle, have you got a message for athletes competing at the Commonwealth Games?

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: Yeah, well, when I get over there, I'll be congratulating and acknowledging that journey that athletes have been on to get there. But yeah, message to them, I'd say, be yourself, enjoy this moment, do everything you can to get that satisfaction out of your event and be proud. 

You're representing beautiful country, oldest living culture in the world in this country so like, yeah, don't forget that moment to be proud and be very proud that you're representing the country.

Tim Gavel: So, when you look back and you look at your first Commonwealth Games yourself and now, you're going as the Cultural Advisor, have you thought, 'Gee, I wish I'd been given this piece of advice before I competed at a Commonwealth Games back in 1990 or, here's your experience? How do you approach this job? Because I would imagine you would be drawing on your experience at your first Commonwealth Games.

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: Yeah, I am. And I think, probably putting my Aboriginality aside, I think, I remember saying to Mum, when I was working that stuff out when I was younger, I said 'Mum, can I represent Australia as an Australian and an Aboriginal Australian?' and she said 'Yeah.' And I said 'Well, that's what I'm going to do, Mum. I'm going to be a proud Australian and a proud Aboriginal Australian.' 

So, I think I don't forget that, and I think if I've got a young person in front of me, I'm like, well, you're a proud Australian and you've also got your heritage, whatever that is, bring that to the table, don't tuck that away and don't be shy to –

Tim Gavel: Use it as a strength.

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: – use it, whatever background that is. And I think that that would be success to me is that we've got athletes that can just celebrate all their part, all parts of their background. And I probably would have liked that more in my career is to just be environments that you can be yourself, not judged or not looked at differently. 

But yeah, I did have a lot of good memories too and I think back to my first first senior person who came up to me in the village in Auckland, and it was Lisa Curry-Kenny, and she said 'Hey, what sport are you?', and 'I'm Lisa Curry', and you introduce yourself, and she was just interested to meet young team members, and I just remember how bubbly and positive, and it was a thrill, because you're like, I knew who she was, and she's a superstar in swimming.

But just to be seen and acknowledged, and I think that'll be part of my role too, is to make sure that there'll be the high-profile people there, but there'll be athletes that want to be spoken to and 'How are you?' and 'Morning', 'Good afternoon', whatever it is, and just help athletes be seen and be acknowledged.

So, it sounds simple, but I think it goes a long way and it's, without sounding corny, I want people to feel safe and connected and like 'Hey, I belong in this team.' Whether you're from a very small sport that's got a hand full of people or a massive sport where, swimming or track and field where maybe some of those athletes might be lost in the numbers. 

So, there's an important piece to play with making that connection important for everyone and then go and watch some good results as well. So hopefully we get some tickets to go and watch the sports, which is a thrill in this role because I never would have watched swimming in my career or other sports, so it's possibly a chance to watch elite sport as well.

Tim Gavel: Yeah, I'd give you an 'Access Infinity Pass', Kyle, which will get you everywhere.

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: I mean, they're hard to get. They're hard to get.

Tim Gavel: I'm sure you're going to do a great job, but thanks very much for joining us.

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: Thanks Tim, appreciate the time.

Tim Gavel: Good on you. Thanks very much for that.

Kyle Vander-Kuyp OLY: Thank you.

Tim Gavel: And this is a special episode, of course, of the Commonwealth Games podcast series. Kyle's story is a powerful reminder of the role sport can play in connection and belonging and the importance of integrity in creating culturally safe sporting environments. 

We appreciate Kyle for sharing both his personal journey and the work he's doing to support current and future generations in our sports sector. Thanks for listening. We'll catch you again very shortly.